HARA- PÁRVATII SAMVADA[purely Original discourse]


June 1967, Srinagar, INDIA

{{This above discourse Bábá spoke explicitly in Hindi language and I have translated in English with my best capacity to maintain the sanctity of the Discourse – which AM publication editors, whoever, has not maintained it; if one goes through the same in Electronic edition or Books – let Prakriti curse them to become a stone, who has done knowingly mudslinging; to add whatever they like or delete whatever they like.}}

Regarding the Existence of Sádhakas Goal and Sádhakas Realization, Sadáshiva has stated many upadesha(benevolent thoughts).

You all know that Tantra is a Spiritual cult.

Tantra Sádhaná is a vaevahárika [practical].

Dharma is not a bookish thing at all.

Dharma is Vaevahárika[practical] thing.

Ácárańát Dharmah – In one’s Individual existence, everybody must practice Dharma Acarana.

By going through Shástra, one cannot become Dharmika.

Regarding the Tantra’s vaevahárika[practical] cult, Párvatii raised questions and what were the questions?

They were Pariprashna.

Then what questions are called Pariprashna?

Only to get to know or to understand, such questions cannot be called Pariprashna. Then for what we call Pariprashna?

If one understands and then as per practice of that understanding, learns how to do Sádhaná, for those questions, we term Pariprashna.

For lokashikśá, Párvatii jii asked so many Pariprashna and for those pertinent questions, Shiva jii answered. Sadáshiva.

Párvatii’s Pariprashna were Nigama shástra and Sadáshiva’s answers were Ágama shástra.

Nigama and Ágama, when these two are associated, it is named Tantra.

What to do, How to do, Why to do – such questions are Nigama Shástra. Then Answers.

Nigama, in that sense, it is Philosophical and Ágama is perfectly Practical.

In this case, for Parama Upalabhadii (all round development) sake, to get Paramátmá, that is, for Self Realization, what is to be done?

For the all questions of Párvatii’s, the answers who gave, Shiva, Sadáshiva replied.

For Dharma, people undergo difficulties, they do many upavasa, they do japa and tapah(strenuous rituals), but they don’t know the reason, what so ever.

They do Tiirtha yatra(obscure to holy places), so there is much wear and tear, there is much difficulty.

For such things, Shiva jii is replying —

Na muktirtapanádhomádupavásashataerapi;

Brahmaeváhamiti jiṋátvá mukto bhavati dehabhrt.

By undergoing troubles with the body, one can get Paramátmá, to think like this is not at all proper. Why?

For undergoing trouble with the body, to undergo trouble with body means taking much difficulties because there is hardship.

You see as man undergoes troubles, even animals like cow undergoes much hardships and troubles.

So undergoing troubles with the body doesn’t mean that one will get Paramátmá. Hmm.

Does Cow undergo less hardship?

And “tapanádhomád” – homá you know – suppose if one has lot of money, then many homá can be performed but poor can never perform.

“upavásashataerapi” – if upavása is done as per shloka, Upavása if done, it doesn’t mean one will get Paramátmá.

Then the meaning of upavása as per scriptures is that it means fasting, that is alright, what does “upa” mean? Saḿskrta “vasam” — Nikat’a(very near), Sameepa(nearness) and “vása” means “be there”.

To keep mind very near to Paramátmá that is “Upavása”.

Fasting is not upavása, that is “Annashana”.

Upavása means “to be very near” – that is keeping mind away from the crude material objects and be very near to Paramátmá.

Bábá is asking one sister whether she is understanding properly.

“Brahma eváham iti jiṋátvá mukto bhavati dehabhrt”.

I am Brahma, this knowledge, if in this knowledge one gets established; then only one get Liberation.

Not from the theoretical knowledge but when one get properly established in this knowledge.

Anubhútiḿ viná múd́ha vrthá Brahmańi modate;


If you have seen a Mango, only by seeing Mango you cannot understand it, but you’ll have to experience the taste of it.

What do you say for Mango here? Amba or what? Then somebody says – Ama(Mango) – Accha(alright).

So, One has to come in contact with Mango. One has to taste the Mango.

Then only you can realize it to be a Mango tree. If not only by looking in water a tree and mango is hanging there and only if you just see the reflection in water, only by seeing the reflection of a Mango you cannot get a proper idea.

Aham Brahma – Brahma eváham iti jiṋátvá mukto bhavati dehabhrt – Saying only “Brahmaeváham” he cannot be Brahma.

One must have Realization of it.

One must have Realization, so Sádhaná has to be performed.

Brahmaeváham – Brahmaeváham – if that is not realized.

Then where is Brahma?

Then what has been said in Shástra(Scriptures)about, Where is Brahma ?

What has been said, “Dharmasya tattvaḿ nihitaḿ guháyám”.

Paramátmá is with you but HE is hidden in the cave.

HE is hidden in the cave. Until HE is in the cave you cannot say that you are Paramátmá.

Only when that realization you experience, then only you can say there is no Dvaeta.

Till then you are there, Paramátmá is there.

What are you? Sádhaka.

Who is Paramátmá? Sádhya.

Then when these two has proper association, how?

It is of Sádhaná.

Sádhya – Sádhya, Sádhaka, Sádhaná – Until there is three tattva, then you are not Paramátmá.

If Sádhya and Sádhaka become one, then there is no need of Sádhaná. They have become one.

Then you say Paramátmá is one. Then you can say “I am Brahma”, not before that.

Until these Realization of “I am Brahma” is not experienced, one must continue Sádhaná. After that if mind wants it to perform or not.

One may perform for Lokashikśá also.

You must remember that until one has a body, one must perform Sádhaná, why?

Suppose there is a lot́á [small metal vessel] with you. You all know about lot́á here?

What do you call Lot́á here. Someone say Lot́á, then Bábá says Accha(alright).

Lot́á is there, if a new Lot́á which is may be of Gold or Bronze, which you have got?

Then it will look very shiny and lustre.

After some days of using it, then whether it retains the quality. No, it cannot remain new. If one regularly cleans it with tamarind fruit, then it will retain the quality.

So must do regular Sádhaná also. Now you understand why?

Otherwise like old Lot́á it will become. Then the color will be not proper?

“Dharmasya tattvaḿ nihitaḿ guháyám” – Parama tattva is hidden in one’s I-ness.

Cave means “I-ness”.

With all of you, with all persons there is one “I-ness”, there is this “I- ness”, this “I-ness”.

To protect this “I”, you always make your effort.

The endeavor to protect this “I feeling.

Every Man has this “I”. Every living being has this “I”.

This “I”, for this “I” in Saḿskrta is called “guhá”.

In Saḿskrta, there is two meanings for “guhá”.

One is hill of cave and another “I-ness”.

Mai Huan – Aham Asmi – I exist – I am.

The essence of Dharma, who is Paramátmá is hidden in your “I-ness”.

That which is in your “I-ness” is you only, that is which is hidden in your “I-ness”.

Then what it is?

That is, one must look towards one’s “I-ness”, in your “I-ness” where HE is hidden.

In your “I-ness” there is only this “I”.

Inside your “I-ness” you have to search, inside your “I-ness” you have to see.

But man what he does, in search of Paramátmá and to come in his contact, run here and there.

Regarding such person, Sadáshiva has said – regarding such persons, Sadáshiva has said -

Idaḿ tiirtham idaḿ tiirthaḿ bhramanti támasáh janáh;

Átmatiirthaḿ na jánanti kathaḿ mokśa varánane.

Here there is tiirtha – if I take dip here then I will have such and such Punya, if during month of Magha – on occasion of Sankranti day, if I take bath then I will have enormous wealth and food.

Thinking in this way, man runs here and there. Never he is thinking and making effort for himself.

With all these what does happen, he is wasting money and energy and everything becomes useless.

Idaḿ tiirtham idaḿ tiirthaḿ – here is tiirtha, there is another tiirtha who does like these?

Shiva jii reply is what?

“Támasáh janáh” – Static dominated persons, who do not want to perform Sádhaná, such persons only will do this.

So, Átmatiirthaḿ na jánanti kathaḿ mokśa varánane.

If one never consider these, Átmatiirthaḿ – see these Átmatiirthaḿ – inside these Átmá Mandir(temple) there is Parama tattva which is hidden, then how can one attain Salvation.

Lord Shiva gives another illustration concerning such persons:

Átmasthitaḿ Shivaḿ tyaktvá

Vahisthaḿ yah samarcayet;

Hastasthaḿ pińd́amutsrjya

Bhramate jiivatáshayá.

Suppose in the house of rich there is enough article of Food, but instead goes for begging(bhiksanda dehi, bhiksanda dehi) from one house to another, then whether he is not foolish.

So in the same way, that Shiva who exists has I-ness, that Shiva is hidden, instead of not doing that Shiva’s Upasana within, but searching in tiirthas, temples looking for Shiva.

Átmasthitaḿ Shivaḿ tyaktvá – not considering this but “Vahisthaḿ yah samarcayet” but searching Shiva outside, what will be there position.

Hastasthaḿ pińd́amutsrjya – The food that exist in one’s hand – What is meant by Pińd́a? Anna – “ad dhatu+kta”– anna.

This “Pińd́a” in Vaedic language for Anna, that is Old Saḿskrta – Pińd́a.

You all know that, when “Arya” came to Bharata(India) – long time ago, they were speaking this Vaedic language.

Vaedic language means old Saḿskrta.

Where is Pińd́a – coming to Bharata(India) they became farmers and they started cultivation.

After doing cultivation and farming, all farmers use to assemble in one place and then sit together for taking meal during lunch time.

What they were eating in their language – they were eating Pińd́a.

From today’s point, what we call shradda the same in olden time was called Pińd́adhan.

Pińd́adhan means Annadhana.

Pińd́a they were eating.

All around, there is agricultural land but somewhere all farmers they used to sit by chatting and eating, during noon time, for such a place they used to call Pińd́a-ka – the place where we will eat Pińd́a.

That pińd́iika in Paeshácii Prákrta became Pińd́ii-a, then Pińd́ii-a say Pińd́a-ii, Pińd́ii – In Punjabi the place name is called Pińd́ii.

In Old Punjabi – Pińd́ii.

Rawalpińd́i – the habitation of Rawals.

Hastasthaḿ pińd́amutsrjya – the food which is in the hands – Pińd́a that is Anna(food) will be thrown — “Bhramate Girijatáshayá” then they go begging to another house saying Bhiksan dehi Bhiksan dehi.

So you all must remember, that Paramátmá is hidden within you and for searching HIM going to these tiirtha, that tiirtha one must never do.

HE is within you, so make proper effort to search within, you will realize and find HIM.

Paramátmá is with you.